Great news! Thousands of people no longer have to pretend they aren't going to buy an iPad 3.

Not pretending. I don't have the first one or the second one and sure as hell won't get the third. For what I do, my KindleFire does fine. And it's half the price. I could care less about Facetime or taking pictures with a giant IPhone. Honestly if they want me to reconsider then maybe they could show me what a $600 price tag buys me, other than a computer that will be outdated by the end of the year. I've never understood that about Apple. Everyone clamours for their newest offering and it feels like it was just yesterday that the IPad 2 came out. It seems the price stays the same but the list of "additions" gets shorter.

Proud owner of an android tablet myself.

Guys, you're really taking this to extremes. I appreciate your dedication, but the war is over! We've won!

I own lots of Apple stock. Do you Brian?

If not, sorry, you're not celebrating with me.

Though, I don't much like Apples products.

"We won, we won" - What exactly do you have to gain though?

________

I see Apple is suing Samsung because they said *specifically* their phones/tablets pose the biggest threat to Apple.

I still prefer to use other software besides Apples even on their products. iOS still is a stinker for the tablet, it's pretty good for a phone.

In the long run, the growth story is in a 20 year cycle (similar to another 20 year cycle). So I still hold my positions.

Not pretending. I don't have the first one or the second one and sure as hell won't get the third. For what I do, my KindleFire does fine. And it's half the price.

Sometimes when I'm hungry I eat a raisin and pretend it's an apple.

When the Apple is $600 and not sh!t against an actual computer but I get all the great doucheyness that comes along with owning it, my raisin is fine. Honestly what can an IPad do that makes it worth $600? It might as well be an Iphone 4 that doesn't make calls.

I'm struggling to find the relevance, here.

Seems an honest statement. How is that struggle going?

I doubt anyone ever said you had to.

I'm sure it was rhetorical.....

That explains why its resonated so strongly.

I think the only reason I bought the stock was recognizing that Apple was first to take advantage of simplicity (that most people would rather spend 600 dollars than 1000s since they just use the internet and only really need to shop, surf the web, watch videos, download some content). So I'm not surprised it did well. Not sure if that has much to do with iOS, but hey.

That story is still true and given the opportunity to get into emerging markets, I don't see a need to get rid of my stock. Of course, I guess we will see long term if they have a culture of success without Jobs input. For now, they don't need it, they can continue to ride Iphone and Ipad for years.

This is such a common sense and non-controversial statement that I'm at a loss as to what point its trying to prove.

What is this...

We've won!

Trying to prove?

The statement was just about the secular case for Apple as a good bet for some years to come. For those of us who actually have a monetary interest at stake here. You seem to have a "fan" interest at stake....just not really that interesting.

"We've won" was sarcasm, but probably sarcasm in a way that will fly over the head of most who read it.

Given it's you....

You feel obligated to post reports on behalf of Apple. A lot. I guess in my mind, just curious what you get out of that exactly.

And also of course, condescension to anyone disagreeing. Or is that gonna fall under sarcasm too. Maybe we can just put satire by these 100s of articles on Apple's behalf.

Honestly what can an IPad do that makes it worth $600?

Spoken like an open-minded individual. Let me take a crack at it though. The portability of my iPad makes it far easier to bring to places where I cannot or do not want to take my laptop along. I can connect back to my home or work computers using Citrix or LogMeIn. I can read iBooks, Nook books and Kindle books. I subscribe to a number of publications like the Economist, Nat Geo Traveler, AutoWeek and others. I keep track of my travels with TripIt and find places to dine while traveling with TripAdvisor and Yelp. I take notes that keep in sync with my other computers and devices with Evernote. I can stream movies from the cloud with NetFlix, from my home computer with Plex and Boxee and watch my home DVR with SlingPlayer. I can store movies on the iPad itself for those many times I am not connected to a network. I make video calls with FaceTime and Skype. And, much more.

That is not to say that your Kindle Fire is not the perfect device for your needs. But, being dismissive of other people's usage of their devices is narrow-minded.

I don't feel "obligated" to do anything.

I feel like your posting history points to that. But then again, just my opinion.

Do you think those that primarily spend their time on Newsvine posting negative articles about Apple (even though they know dick all about technology and rarely even bother responding to those who comment on their seeds) are "obligated" to do so

.......? This is your great crusade? Is this....productive?

I mean, people who are biatching might not be producing anything either, but I'm not seeing the value added.

, or do you simply think it's better to obsess over something you hate than over something you actually understand?

In general?

People are people man. Anything that is successful will have haters. And yes, they will post negative things about what they hate.

This is like you trying to convince me Tom Brady is a great QB. I say he's a POS. My opinion will never change, and I might even post negative comments about him. So what? You could throw out all his accomplishments ad infinitum. Doubt it would make a difference.

That's where you're wrong. Condescending to people who simply disagree? Nah. To people who don't even try to bring something to the table?

Which table is this?

Newsvine? Or just this particular discussion?

I think I'm more curious than anything. I have a personal benefit to Apple's success (I don't feel the need to cheerlead on their behalf, even though that would be winning). My view is simply about earnings growth and capital gains.

Sadly, that's usually the contingent that shows up.

Seems like you want that.

I don't see anything here that really helps. I mean, you're not giving any data that I can see as a benefit.

(Not least of which is because Amazon isn't making any money by selling them. Ask yourself why Amazon has to sell them at a loss in order to sell enough to be a strong -- but distant -- 2nd to the iPad.)

........?

Rah, rah, rah.

Anyway....there are other reasons people sell at a loss. Lots of people sell lots of things for losses for various reasons.

• Carriers sell phones at losses so they can pick up plan fees on the back end
• Amazon is selling that at a loss largely to break into a new market, and hopefully, to increase users on it's premium service, thus earning fees for high margin products (like streaming movies, music, etc)
• PS3 sold it's device at a loss because they overbuilt the hardware and it cost that much to build. (and some other reasons, like money on software not hardware, and wanting to future proof the console if they could)

It's an expanding market, Apple is a dominant player. Though, we used to say this about the Iphone, now there are phones that do compete with that phone.

Which I take very seriously.

I really don't have that much vested.

What the @!$%# do you think the point of this site is? It's a site designed for people who are interested in certain topics to contribute material about those topics.

So, only people interested in building up your posted article should be commenting here?

As you said, free discussion. They are as free to hate on the article as you are. I just don't think much is gotten out of these types of seeds.

Would you prefer I seeded material that I don't care about or should I just focus on material that YOU care about?

Well, it's more that I believe *you think* you are adding a lot of value with these seeds. But I don't see it.

Given the discussion you seem to want to have, I'm left to assume it's the empty table. Do you know anything at all about this topic or are you just here to question my motives for seeding it?

Does this seed actually have a topic?

Again, just seems like cheerleading. That's an empty table topic.

You don't see any value in a discussion centered around Apple's role in China and the ignorance that seems to fuel it back here in America?

Well, I'm a stock owner. By definition I'm condoning their policies whether they happen to be right or not.

From what I've studied on 10Qs, 10ks, conference calls, and weekly homework of the stock, they rely infinitely more on their manufacturing vendors than inputing their own ideas into those overseas labor forces.

They don't really have a vested interest other than producing more, cheaper, and more flexibility. Lest people like me sell the stock if their margins were lower.

Here's hoping that gamble pays off. We'll know in a year or so. Meanwhile, Apple seems to be doing pretty damn well making money on both the razor AND the blade.

Not sure what that has to do with Amazon, whether Apple is making money off those items.

I find Amazon's potential as a stock more interesting than Apple.

Though Amazon is very highly priced (come down some) for a retailer. But the reason should be obvious, they are the premier online retailer in a world that will shift from in store purchasing by significantly more than now. Their moat is pretty wide.

Apple has a wide moat too. But as an investor, you always wonder if this is a bubble, or how many years can a company get 20+% profit growth before saturing some markets.

Is Amazon where say Walmart was in the 1950s? Might be a good time for a boom coming for 50 years. Comparitively, is Apple at a point where I can expect another 10 years of this growth?

The cash position is starting to get really heady. And since their culture is very anti-aquisition, will this excess capital start hitting the relative size of invested returns.

I don't think anyone ever said no one would ever compete with the iPhone.

Anyone is a lot of people....

With that said, it's kind of silly to say that Apple isn't currently a dominant (if not THE dominant) player in the smartphone industry.

They are a dominant player, possibly the dominant one. Though Google is making some serious advances in that space. Samsung is hitting record sales too.

I think more tablets will come with more options. And what is bad about that?

I don't know if users should wish for 1 dominant player, history shows that can be bad for innovation, but more importantly for users themselves when it comes to value.

Only people interested in talking about the actual content of the article should be posting here, yes.

On Newsvine?

First, I'll take your concerns seriously once you start seeding your own content with any regularity.

.....

I don't really have a goal of achieving that. I think my history points to a breadth of research, knowledge, being able to admit I'm wrong, and so on. Not that it should matter.

I try to add value with posts where I can.

Second, yes. Yes, yes yes. People are free to hate on the article and disagree. But I'm then free to throw that back at them with exactly the level of intensity that they disagree.

Most of their posts are just off the wall, little angsty on Apple. Exact level? Responses seem to be much more heightened than that.

My interest, of course, is in the reaction to Apple's use of Foxconn by "outraged" consumers, especially as it relates to the reality of the world and our place in it.

Yeah, I get that.

High profile company though. Exxon gets just as much outrage for having a pretty profitable business, yet somehow qualifying for tax credits and even government subsidies.

What make's it a little worse is Apple's margin is very high. It's an envious margin in the tech world. If I'm being honest, I'd say they can still make money and provide better jobs.

Of course, I happen to believe that companies could make even more money if they included their workers in their success in a more balanced fashion. There's something about this idea today that at one end people want to get wealth and lots of it but fail to keep that working capital flowing very well. If you actually look at the GINI ratio in China, it's been going the wrong way since 1980 (when their manufacturing revolution began). And at a pretty rapid pace.

But then again, I participate in the stock system.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought that question was rhetorical.

Skippy Dippy Doopie Doobie Doo. (That's the witty part)

FLA is going to do the audit, at the request of Apple, to avoid the PR nightmare they brought upon themselves. You figure after the suicides there that they would step up a lot sooner...like 2009-ish. This ultimately means that if NYT never posted the article about this actually happening, Apple wouldn't be doing anything about it. It's saving their butt's from being burned, when they should have been more aware of the issue in the first place. (informed comment)

K,

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/13/10397320-apple-asks-labor-group-to-probe-china-suppliers

I love this quote:

"The entry of Apple to FLA is a welcome development," said Mary Gallagher, director of the University of Michigan's Center for Chinese Studies, and associate professor for political science. "However, I'm not optimistic that conditions in Apple's supplier factories will change if we only rely on occasional inspections from an overseas group."

Oh and this one too:

China Labor Watch's Qiang said he sees Apple's move as more of an attempt to rebuild its public image rather than to help workers.

"What Apple should do now is to take action to solve the problems and improve the labor conditions in their supplier factories, not to conduct inspections and put the factories into the media and public's attention," he maintained.

In the end, it's a PR stunt to fix their image.

Now, will thousands and thousands of people buy an iPad 3 after all of this? Yes, cause sheep follow the flock.

Will this 'voluntary audit' fix the labor conditions in China? Probably Not, but we all hope for the best.

Will this continue to be an issue? As long as labor goes to China, yes.

Will I vote this comment up to prove something? Nah, don't really care.

I love the second quote more :-)

Yup, Yup And Yup. Reality Is a bitch.

..........

I'm trying to grasp why someone thinks that usage of large words or a near elitist attitude makes the information they convey somehow of any value....

Especially given what appears to be a complete lack of anything worthwhile in technical skill or knowledge and definitely nothing showing in a financial benefit. But I guess you could measure that other ways.

Like how many nice words can I use.

Really?? You haven't figured it out yet?! Just wow....

WHAT?! You must stay plugged in! you must!

If I did that VM my head would explode with all the nonsense associated with being plugged in, If I want music I just hum. :)

Vlad's dog wrote:

Wow, the technology war is getting like a religious war.

The Mac vs. PC war's always been like that.

Having said that, I have a MacBook, a Windows 7 laptop and an iPhone. Each has its pros and cons, but they each serve different needs, mostly quite well.